Joined on 29 May 2013 at 17:00 Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): http://octel.alt.ac.uk/course-materials/supporting-learners/ Moderator (Nancy White 2): Waving to the new folks who just arrived! Moderator (Nancy White 2): Actually, just think of me as "choconancy" - chocoholic Roger Harrison - Manchester: can you put the link up to the books? Moderator (David Jennings): Really good book - I've used it in my consulting! Moderator (Nancy White 2): Thanks, David! Moderator (David Jennings): Website for the book (Roger & others) http://technologyforcommunities.com/ Roger Harrison - Manchester: x Roger Harrison - Manchester: crazy is good Roger Harrison - Manchester: it's holiday period Moderator (Nancy White 2): uncertainty/matrix - http://www.liberatingstructures.com Moderator (Nancy White 2): spetrogram - http://kstoolkit.org Roger Harrison - Manchester: Nancy your voice keeps going really squeeky as if you're on gas Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Roger that sounds like it might be the connection Uwe: interesting to see where you are situated and why .. David Greeff 1: whats the question again? Colette 1: Very visual! Andy Turner: It made me wonder if self assessment would be different to peer assessment. Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Made me feel involved Roger Harrison - Manchester: erm - didn't really have an effect Moderator (David Jennings): Slightly self-conscious because I'm not sure whether I'm being modest or arrogant with respect to others' experience David Greeff 1: I wish I knew who was writing what on the whiteboard Uwe: David - I think the discussion helps to confirm or question your self-assessment Roger Harrison - Manchester: can we also consider synchronous versus asynchronous Andy Turner: Some people have a tendency to low self assessment, others can be over confident... For everyone it can be different for different aptitudes. Andy Turner: Uwe: 50 - then I can hope ElizabethC: @Andy: ditto Roger Harrison - Manchester: hey - I'm an ideas person but implementing somehow passess me by Roger Harrison - Manchester: he is my HERO Moderator (David Jennings): Stephen is a critical friend to this course Andy Turner: Yes. I've been reading... Uwe: Sounds like my son Roger Harrison - Manchester: my challenge is teaching and learning for people who are not self directed who I find are the largest group ElizabethC: @Roger - where I am at the moment. Andy Turner: Learning by doing on your own is good to train you to be inventive... But to write and develop withour reading and using others work does not necessarily help to make great breakthroughs. We need shortcuts to learning and that is sometimes teaching things. Irmgard: @Uwe sounds like my son, too Leonie 1: Presumably people have different preferences in different situations or for different material? ElizabethC: fluctuating between the two states of apprentice and master. Roger Harrison - Manchester: (every so often I'm finding that the sound breaks for a few seconds - my connection is usually good - it's workable if not resolvable) Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Roger, I wonder if it is your connection as I'm not experiencing that. Is there another machine you can use? David Greeff 1: it seems fine for me Roger Harrison - Manchester: But if I give something up to the community, aren't I actually going to get even more back? otherwise why give something up to the comunity ElizabethC: ditto Roger Harrison - Manchester: can you say something about bullying later please Roger Harrison - Manchester: i'm not convinced we all have goals - yes to eat and breath etc, but for example, I don't know what my goal is in taking this course, other than just a different experience. Uwe: I think community without social does not work? Andy Turner: The connectivist transcending boundaries open nature of technology enhanced learning has enhanced potential (bootstrapping effect) for creating and nurturing diverse teams that research/teaching/develop/collaborate... Roger Harrison - Manchester: (what's bootstrapping?) Andy Turner: Bootstrapping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping Moderator (Nancy White 2): and I'll breathe for a moment.. Moderator (Nancy White 2): and notice how audio silence can be used... Moderator (Nancy White 2): Moderator (David Jennings): I think I will get a lot out of it when I review the session (but [guilty] have had slightly divided attention due to domestic issues] Uwe: Would be interesting to bring networked (informal) learning into formal learning Andy Turner: I wonder if the participant who wrote sceptical is prone to that way of thinking anyway... No problem with that... David Greeff 1: maybe I am prone to that way ... Roger Harrison - Manchester: Is there Evidence though of all this? David Greeff 1: i am in Africa - I wonder how ready the learners here are ready for it David Greeff 1: nope David Greeff 1: website please? Moderator (Nancy White 2): Tony Carr at UCT David Greeff 1: tony Carr? Roger Harrison - Manchester: evidence that social learning communities lead to better individiual learning outcomes Roger Harrison - Manchester: i work with students in Africa, - there biggest problem we find is reliable connection and also challenge of synchronous participation Andy Turner: http://www.cet.uct.ac.za/TonyCarr David Greeff 1: thanks David Greeff 1: yes, connectivity is the biggest issue i recon Roger Harrison - Manchester: is there evidence that it leads to better learning in the workplace then? you see this is the question my colleagues will say - how do we know it is better than classroom traditional learning Uwe: @Roger - I understand that in some arts of Africa mobile technology / connnections are better than internet networks Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): David, have you looked at John Traxler's work on mobile learning in Africa David Greeff 1: learning styles are also genetic i think. Roger Harrison - Manchester: yes Mobile is a way forward in Africa I'm told David Greeff 1: and one of my colleagues recons the majority of 'Africans' are experiential. So i think this puts 'online communities' a step behind with them. David Greeff 1: please repeat Moderator (Nancy White 2): Anyone want to get ont he spot and recap? Janet Gordon (London Met): I think you said, "Nancy, check your assumptions about what and how" Moderator (Nancy White 2): Yay, Janet! Moderator (Nancy White 2): we do have infinite possibilities, but sometimes just don't see them! Moderator (Nancy White 2): Grainne +1 Uwe: I don't think learning styles are genetic - you can learn to learn and many people are / become "multimodal" the more experienced learners they become - we all have multiple intelligences David Greeff 1: any evidence? Roger Harrison - Manchester: learning styles - we just need to get on providing learning where the learner has more autonomy and more control over the learning methods ElizabethC: outcome focus Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): David, perhaps a good starting point are some of the resources linked to in the week 7 materials and in Nancy's book David Greeff 1: ok, thanks Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): http://octel.alt.ac.uk/course-materials/supporting-learners/ Roger Harrison - Manchester: Much of what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me, and you also mention frameworks - which is the biggest challenge for me as I work within a Faculty and within a framework of assessment - this makes it difficult to have things like cMOOCs and other styles of learning etc Uwe: I have used Vark http://www.vark-learn.com/english/index.asp with many students and the predominant result is multimodal ... we than take the learning style concept apart Jane C: http://neurobollocks.wordpress.com/tag/learning-styles/ Andy Turner: Courses facilitated online might escape the online environment to get the learning done. Andy Turner: How best to plan group work with an online course that has participants from different time zones was my big question at the start of ocTEL... I think one of the key important things I've thought about this is I need to get a good idea of who the participants are first off and if any of them can maybe meet up offline. The course I am taking on as a moderator/developer is online facilitated, but not open. Not this year anyhow. Moderator (David Jennings): See http://octel.alt.ac.uk/course-materials/supporting-learners/#resources for the resources of Nancy's that Grainne mentions ElizabethC: the old learner-tutor power dynamics! Roger Harrison - Manchester: but isn't there a danger here that we are using the technology and possibliities to decide what and how things are done? I don't usually use this argument, (my colleagues often do) but here I'm getting frustrated that we aren't looking at what are the known better outcomes/experiences of other approaches Uwe: I think one of the biggest challenges in my experience is create the space where online students comfortable enough to work together. David Greeff 1: I really appreciate the interaction everyone. Sadly I need to leave the session. Thank you so much Nancy, and other facilitators! Bye everyone .... Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Bye David Andy Turner: Bye David Roger Harrison - Manchester: ok - I agree. But, if anyone else can point me to any evidence/articles that have examined the benefits from these methods please share. This is what I need to encourage colleagues and others to move in this direction. Roger Harrison - Manchester: so how do we develop these online social skills ? (sorry for so many comments!) Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Uwe and Roger - check the learner design models in the activity 7.1. section of the course. There are a few models there that can help tutors to help students to develop these skills Uwe: @Grainne - Thanks Roger Harrison - Manchester: (thanks - I'm a little behind with my reading etc) - at the moment I'm just seeing barriers over and above what I'd love to see happening on the online course I teach on. Roger Harrison - Manchester: you only have 9 minutes left! Roger Harrison - Manchester: how do i speak Moderator (Nancy White 2): click on the mic on the lower left ElizabethC: we can hear you Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Hi we can hear you Moderator (Nancy White 2): yy, we can hear you! Andy Turner: Hello Janet Gordon (London Met): Hello Moderator (Nancy White 2): yay, not yy Andy Turner: I could hear you... Moderator (Nancy White 2): Yes! ElizabethC: yes Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Yes Janet Gordon (London Met): Yes Andy Turner: Yes Moderator (Nancy White 2): Tell us your story Moderator (Nancy White 2): Tech context: Blackboard Irmgard: @ Uwe -yeah - are you from Cambridge? Colette 1: Sorry to have to leave Moderator (Nancy White 2): 3 groups of students - 1) run w/ written material and can get good grades, 2) engage w/ course via assessment processes (required/assessed activity) One direction students 3) want to talk, communicate, engage, and are frustrated that other students don't want to engage. Uwe: Roger - had a very similar experience with a course which was delivered online. Moderator (Nancy White 2): Q: How to develop course to open up to exploring the learning -- learning taking place beyond the course materials and presentations. Moderator (Nancy White 2): - quality - relevance, openness ElizabethC: You have to sell the benefits to be gained by participating in areas that do not have credits to it. + Give clear guidance as to why Moderator (Nancy White 2): (Haha, informal, on the spot peer assist!) Roger Harrison - Manchester: and this is why I need evidence to (a) convince my colleagues and (b) to encourage/convince students Roger Harrison - Manchester: forgot to say, ours are all adult learners, and spread across the world so could be a fantastic community Moderator (Nancy White 2): Look at a learning objective and consider how the instructional design can move more towards interaction (I.e. offer less intial content, pose key questions and build in reflective practice Moderator (Nancy White 2): Create an experiment with a learning lab focus and invite in to show/live an alternative Moderator (Nancy White 2): Build the social structure/scaffolding directly Moderator (Nancy White 2): Use peer review Roger Harrison - Manchester: can you say more about the learning hub Uwe: I found if students are forced to learn online and on a course they have to take, it is really challenging to get them motivated Roger Harrison - Manchester: yes I',m reading about peer review to put to my manager Moderator (Nancy White 2): Reflective blogs and require initially other students to comment. Then they start doing it because they find value/like it Andy Turner: Serious Games for Higher Education learning interest me. A couple of years ago I signed up to MangaHigh to get access to some Mathematics games for some young people I know (MangaHigh is aimed at primary school ages and above). I've been quite taken with its connectivist nature. The competition element is good between school and the networking part seems to help teachers. The learning analytics capabilities of it do provide evidence that it helps. I have seen reports about this, but I'm not sure which is the best ones to read. Here is one: http://gettingsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/edMangahigh_exec_report.pdf Roger Harrison - Manchester: Uwe - sort of agree at times Moderator (Nancy White 2): Get the learners to teach ElizabethC: peer review does help to bridge that tension between the two groups Moderator (Nancy White 2): Ah, see Bronwyn stuckey from Australia on games and learning -- thining about game dynamics, not just "games" Roger Harrison - Manchester: thanks Moderator (Nancy White 2): Don't forget to click mic! Roger Harrison - Manchester: yes] Moderator (Nancy White 2): go ahead Moderator (Nancy White 2): I think we have a little time lag.. Roger Harrison - Manchester: masters in public health, adult learners all around the world Roger Harrison - Manchester: ;YES that's what I really want to be able to do Moderator (Nancy White 2): Cynefin Framework - Snowden and Kurtz Roger Harrison - Manchester: ocTLE people - I wonder if there is apossiblity of a group working on a real problem we are facing, such as developing online learning community etc, and then we could work together/ support each other in doing this. Moderator (Grainne Hamilton): Roger, we'll have a think about how we could enable that via ocTEL Roger Harrison - Manchester: GREAT Janet Gordon (London Met): Count me in, Roger. ElizabethC: If I can help I will Uwe: Would be interested in such a group / discussion Roger Harrison - Manchester: my email is roger.harrison@manchester.ac.uk ElizabethC: thank you Nancy. Roger Harrison - Manchester: Nancy - you're a star! Moderator (Nancy White 2): Janet Gordon (London Met): Thank you, Nancy. I missed the beginning, but will definitely watch the recording. Andy Turner: Developing serious games, like SimCity helps those developing the games understand how those things they represent in the games work. Thanks for the links. Yes, thank you. Let's work on the potential/possibilities Roger Harrison - Manchester: as always more to do! Moderator (Nancy White 2): Great participation and I learned a lot from y'all. THANK YOU!